ChrisMaverick dotcom

Seriously, just salute the other flag

Ok… So lets say you’re really bent out of shape about the whole kneeling for the national anthem thing. I have a serious question for you. And I want you to sit down and think long and hard about it. Have you ever considered that you might be a racist? Don’t answer right away… I know the gut reaction is to say no. But for just a moment, think about it.  Just really consider it. Let it sink in. Don’t let the word scare you. I’m talking about the concept…  Maybe… just maybe… you really just don’t like black people. Maybe you fear them. Maybe you hate them.

I get it. Your gut reaction is that’s not true. See, it’s because we’ve made a slight miscalculation over the last few decades in America. We taught people that it is wrong to “be a racist.” We taught people that “racists are bad people.” No one wants to be a bad person. And so you took the logical solution. You decided “well, gosh darn it… I’m a good person, So I guess I must not be a racist.” We said that using “the N-word” was bad… so you stopped. We took away the Confederate flag so now you you’re forced to cling to the American one. Because you know that you’re not a bad person. You know that you’re not a racist. You’re a patriot.

I guess we weren’t clear. See, it wasn’t about the words. It wasn’t about the symbols. You’re not a patriot. You’re not a good person. You’re a racist! Sorry.

I’ve written about this before — about how if you’re really all up in arms about this, then you really don’t understand how the flag works. Granted, I really didn’t expect anyone to actually change their mind when I wrote it. In fact, I’ve also written before about how facts have nothing to do with political opinions and really aren’t very good at changing people’s minds. That’s still true. I know that. Really, the last time I ranted about this was mostly because I wanted to make fun of a guy for being an idiot and being offended by the flag protest. Why? Because I’m an asshole. It’s what I do. And I’m proud of it. I’m proud of my assholery, the same way you should be proud of your racism.

Let me explain.

See, yesterday my wife, Stephanie, started yet another Facebook conversation about the dumbass president’s ridiculous and poorly thought out war against the NFL and the kneeling during the anthem protest. Yeah, see… he’s a racist too. And he doesn’t really understand how the flag works. Her cousin, who is apparently a very big Trump supporter and also very offended by the flag protests went on a tirade about it. And he clung to one of the current big talking points about it “they can protest all they want. They should just do it outside of work.” Well, gee that sounds reasonable right? No one is allowed to protest at work, right? Wrong! Lots of people protest at work. Hell, I’ve done it. In fact, one specific type of work protest is so common that we have laws that govern the way it works and protects the protesters… labor strikes. So work protests happen all the time. And the simple truth is, as this individual was told by my sister-in-law, Dana, and my friend, Chris, not all jobs are created equal. So if you are somehow not allowed to protest what you perceive as a social injustice at work… well, sorry… your job fucking sucks. You should do something about that, Maybe protest.

But it’s a lie anyway. Because not all protests are equal. And your job doesn’t require you to stand for the national anthem or salute the flag. You made that up. Because if your job does require that, well… you should really sue. It’s pretty clearly unconstitutional. But the truth is, your job probably doesn’t actually play the national anthem and ask people to stand. BECAUSE PRETTY MUCH NO ONE’S DOES. And, as I pointed out before, the NFL didn’t either, until eight years ago. It’s not a tradition. It’s a commercial. You’re not offended by a break with tradition. because unless you’re a child, you lived through a time when it wasn’t a thing.

Anyway, after arguing for a while, this person sent my wife a bunch of videos as proof that the protesting players were wrong. The first is a video talking about how the NFL is inconsistent in it’s protest protection because they took issue with Tim Tebow praying before games and after touchdowns in 2012, forced RGIII to turn his Jesus shirt inside out during a post-game press conference, and they’ve repeated fined several players for unapproved uniform modifications (different shoe colors, mostly).

Let’s examine those. The NFL had no issue with Tebow … uh… Tebowing. Like at all. It was actually super popular. It was a meme and everything. That’s why we call it Tebowing. No… it was other people making fun of him. Keep in mind, he wasn’t protesting anything. He was just displaying his faith. No one said he couldn’t pray. We just made fun of him for it. We made fun of him because we’re godless heathens and we like chastising Christians. It’s like totally a thing… And a good one. Seriously… like a big part of Christianity is maintaining your faith while us godless heathens disparage you. It’s like in the bible and everything. I also personally made fun of him for being a virgin whose Miss Universe contestant girlfriend broke up with him because he wouldn’t fuck her. See, I do that sort of thing… because I’m a godless heathen. And an asshole. And I’m proud of it.

The NFL also didn’t actually tell RGIII to turn his shirt inside out. That’s story has been refuted many times. They actually fined him for wearing non-sponsored Adidas logos during a press conference the week before, so he took it upon himself to turn his Jesus t-shirt inside out. The NFL does fine players for wearing unapproved uniform modifications during games. That’s totally a rule – one that makes a lot more sense than the national anthem rule, because it actually occurs DURING the game… as opposed to the anthem which is BEFORE the game. But you know what… honestly, I think that’s stupid too. So long as the base uniform is right so I know what team people are on, I don’t give a fuck what shoes they’re wearing or what they have written on their eye-black. I don’t care, because it doesn’t affect the game or my enjoyment of it.

And you don’t care either. You really don’t. Whether a player kneels or stands during the national anthem has no bearing on the game at all. You wouldn’t even notice it if people weren’t making a big deal of it. Do you know how I know? Because Colin Kaepernick himself did it for weeks before anyone noticed. Because the NFL is full of players who have rape charges, drug charges, domestic abuse charges, and any number of other crimes and convictions. Because I honestly don’t know the political party or religion of any player on my favorite team. And it’s fine… because I don’t give a shit when I’m watching the game. What I care about is can the Steelers make the playoffs. Everything else is secondary.

I got a call last week from my uncle, Roger. He was very upset about people complaining about the kneeling protests. He wanted me to mention him next time I wrote about it. See, Roger is a Vietnam vet. He enlisted just to go to war. He’s one of those people you’re supposed to be supporting theoretically when you stand up for the flag. After the war, he went on to spend several decades as a firefighter. You know, those brave heroes we like to clap for after 9/11. Yep, that’s my uncle. Well, he basically says fuck you. See, Roger told me a story. When he was about 7 years old, and spent every morning in school reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, he started listening to the words. And then he realized that, as a black kid in the 50s, they didn’t really apply to him. So he stopped saying it. He just stopped. In silent protest. No one ever noticed. No one cared that he didn’t say it when he enlisted in the army years later to fight a war. And the families that he spent decades pulling out of burning buildings sure as fuck didn’t care whether he pledged allegiance to anything. Because not saying the pledge of allegiance had nothing to do with the job. But my uncle cares. My uncle cares because he feels like he doesn’t have “liberty and justice for all.”

And that’s the real point of the protests. Whether you agree with the players or not, THEY feel like there is a problem with the way black people are treated in this county. It actually doesn’t matter if they’re right or not (they are). What matters is that they feel that they are in a position where they are being forced to salute an ideology that they don’t believe in. Every single person who tries to say that you shouldn’t be able to protest during the national anthem uses the same rationalization: “This is disrespectful to all the men who died so that you could have your freedoms.” Well, you know what… fuck those men. If you died for my freedom and your idea of freedom was that I am not allowed to speak up about something that bothers me… well, fuck you. Yes, that’s what I said. See, once again. I AM AN ASSHOLE. I’m proud of it.

If your idea of the flag is that it is a symbol that stands beyond the right of people to protest what they see as racial injustice… well, you’re looking at the wrong flag. If you think everyone should be forced to salute an ideological symbol, even if they think it is counter to their beliefs or very survival… well, that’s called slavery. If you’re the kind of person who stands for the national anthem, who salutes the flag, or who speaks the pledge of allegiance, then what you are in effect saying is that you are pledging your loyalty to the ideology of the country. You are showing support. You are saying it works for you. It doesn’t work for everyone. And you shouldn’t want someone who doesn’t believe it is working for them to stand with you. Because in essence that makes your patriotic display meaningless.  If everyone has to stand… well, then your standing doesn’t really mean anything. Compulsory patriotism isn’t patriotic at all. So if you believe everyone should stand for the anthem. Well, now I kind of question whether you actually believe in it at all.

Steph’s cousin also sent her links to two articles, about dangerous men who were released from police custody only to kill cops later that day. There was no context in these articles that linked them to the NFL protests. There’s no context that links them to #BlackLivesMatter. They’re simply “Blue Lives Matter” posts. They’re posts that imply that if we release black men… they’ll kill the police. That’s it. And I understand that some of you might be worried about that. But those two things are unrelated. It’s just a very real fear that you might have. Maybe, if you are pretty much always on the side that gets called racist, there’s something there. Maybe if you are so quick to send articles and videos that don’t actually have the facts right, but you didn’t even bother to check, and you just like them because they seem to support your point, there’s something there. Maybe… just maybe… you really just don’t like black people. Maybe you fear them. Maybe you hate them. Maybe you’re a racist. Be proud of it. Own it.

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139 comments for “Seriously, just salute the other flag

  1. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 3:00 am

    You had to post this while I’m on vacation…

    I can’t believe you actually get paid to “teach”.

    Whoa, nelly. Yeah, wow…

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 6:24 am

      Not only do I get paid to teach. I get paid to teach other people to teach.. I know it’s hard for you to understand this… but I’m REALLY REALLY good at what I do. The fact that you think I’m wrong doesn’t make me wrong…. it actually kinda makes you more wrong.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 7:59 am

      In addition, Chris molds the minds of students each semester, teaching them how to think critically, how to approach world issues, and how to be creative in the world. And, frankly, I think that’s the best thing. 🙂

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:14 am

      its almost like you share an office with me.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:15 am

      There’s no one I’d rather share the back corner with! Plus your work is interesting! 🙂

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 11:09 am

      Chris needs a raise for the shit he teaches. ?

  2. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 3:34 am

    Beautiful

  3. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 3:48 am

  4. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 4:03 am

    Excellent.

  5. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 5:01 am

    Nothing to say. I just want to be notified when inevitably someone who disagrees ends up proving your point.

  6. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 5:23 am

  7. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 6:12 am

    I’ve gotten the impression that a lot of people think that they’re not racist just because they don’t use the N-word, or they have some black friends. But there’s really no way to not develop some ingrained racist beliefs just growing up and living in this society (unless you are someone who is just incapable of learning). I think that most people of my generation have heard their parents say some pretty damn racist things too. So, I would say to these people: first acknowledge that you almost certainly hold some racist beliefs. (I think that people are more likely to accept that than to accept that they are a racist, which is something that most people think of as innate and unchangeable). Then you have to actively challenge those racist beliefs. That takes effort and action. But in the end, I think most people who do this will become happier people with fuller lives, since racism causes fear and wall building.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 6:33 am

      Definitely all also true…. but really, some things are just out and out racist. In this case, the last couple things your cousin sent…. really damn racist.

      like seriously, there’s nothing more to them than “see what the niggers do if you don’t keep them in check?”

      Not using the word doesn’t change the sentiment.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 6:52 am

      Chris Maverick it certainly did seem like that (re: your second paragraph). Very very ugly motives.

      And yes, I agree with your last point. (that’s really what I was saying first in my comment, that people can definitely be racist without using the N-word, since it’s the sentiment rather than any particular word that really matters).

  8. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 6:15 am

    I hear the “I don’t see color” argument so much it makes me want to puke. What it really seems to be is “I don’t see color so I have an excuse to ignore how differently POC are treated.” And then they have the nerve to accuse the victims of being the racists for bringing up the fact that race does, in fact, play a part in this.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 6:38 am

      Also all true… there are so many different factors. And that’s part that I wasn’t even getting into on this one.

  9. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 6:16 am

    Ben’s top 5 favorite responses to why people aren’t racist:
    1. I have black friends
    2. Rap music uses the n-word
    3. Black people are racist too.
    4. I don’t see color.
    5. Fuck you BEN!!! TRUMMMMMPPPPPPPP!!!!!

  10. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 6:43 am

  11. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 7:45 am

    Once again my friend, SPOT ON.

  12. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:16 am

    Would you please start writing for a platform with more exposure than your blog already?

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:17 am

      If you know someone who wants to pay me to rant and rave about whatever I like, send them along…

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:19 am

      You could cross post to Daily KOS maybe? Don’t think they pay but it’d get you more exposure.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:21 am

      See if these guys pay: http://verysmartbrothas.com/

      Some of your stuff would fit in well with McSweeneys too.

      There’s also always BuzzFeed.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:25 am

      I am familiar with all of the above, of course. And as you well know, I have something else in mind that might lead to eventual monetization. It’s more having the time to deal with any of that.

      Seriously, I’d rather just be like an oracle… people should seek me out for knowledge in exchange for food, money and sex.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 11:44 am

      That’s why i’ve shared it to some of my groups (the link to the site in case there is some monetization there through ads or traffic)

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 11:50 am

      Yeah. I don’t have ads on my main blog right now. There are some on Hellcats. But for now I feel like they’d be more annoying on cmdotcom than is warranted for the traffic I get. May change that at some point.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 12:11 pm

      you’ve been well received in the groups. 😉

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 2:49 pm

      Oh cool. Well they should comment so i feel loved.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:53 am

      can they comment on the website without account?

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:16 am

      Yep. Or they can make one. Or they can use and FB account or a bunch of other things

  13. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:28 am

    I like this. I would add that it should also be noted that the national anthem has a verse about how slaves will never be free. We don’t usually sing that verse. So even if the players are disrespecting the anthem, it disrespected them first.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 8:33 am

      yep… there are so many bajillion things that are wrong with the concept and the song that I couldn’t just fit them all into one article (or several)

  14. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:59 am

    I also wonder how much/often self-hatred (projected onto others) plays a role in racism.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:00 am

      I’m sure

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:08 am

      I wonder if a need to feel a part of a group or feeling socially isolated plays a role.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:12 am

      Yes. Tribalism. There’s a need to belong. And a good way to show that you’re a member of the group is performative demonstration. But there’s also a need to show that your tribe is superior to the others. We (humans) don’t really strive for equality, so much as we strive to show that we are not impoverished. And a good way of doing that is demonstrate that our very important needs and rights are more important than someone else’s stupid and trivial needs and rights. Punching down is a lot easier than punching up.

      This actually happens with all subcultures. I mean, that’s sort of the entire point of a group demonstration of protest in the first place. It’s just that it’s way more obvious when the group has hegemonic power over another group. And more dangerous.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:24 am
    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:26 am

      Why wouldn’t you?

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:43 am

      I like to get info from the original source. It’s too easy to misinterpret others’ work.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 9:40 am

      Ah. Well yes, certainly. I think for a blog post like this that’s good enough though.

  15. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 9:29 am

    You know, I openly admit to being racist. I do so, because I know that however hard I try to be fair, I have ingrained, unconscious prejudices. I’ve even taken tests to see where they are. I also openly admit to being sexist and ageist. This does not go down well. When I do so, people assume I mean that I am reveling, enjoying, glorifying racism/sexism/ageism. When, in fact, I’m trying to combat it by acknowledging my failings. So, to hijack your post: what do people think about this approach?

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:40 am

      I mean, I don’t have a problem with it. I think your point is that you are working to better yourself. You’re not saying “woohoo, racism!” you’re trying to understand your prejudices and change them.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:41 am

      I think this relates to the point I was trying to make above ^^

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 9:46 am

      Nothing can be effectively changed without measurement. A self can’t be changed without awareness. You just put the two together.

      Saying you are something, doesn’t mean you want to be that, or be that forever; it just is. That is what people may not be understanding in your case.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 10:43 am

      Every American is racist.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 10:45 am

      I don’t see how folks jump from inherent bias to “woohoo, racism” but maybe it’s phrasing? Maybe spend a little time talking about how despite your efforts, you have biases because of our culture and you’re trying to be aware of them so you react correctly?

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 11:58 am

      I agree – a lot of this comes down to connotations and phrasing. Many people support racist policies because it benefits them (or at least they think it does). Passive racism vs active racism.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 12:00 pm

      I usually say “I’m a racist. Everyone’s a racist.” Then explain what I mean. Usually after someone says, “I’m not racist.” Still, people wish to take me incorrectly.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 12:01 pm

      Sorry, I had to edit that because I don’t say “I’m a racist.” I say “I’m racist.” That’s an important distinction.

  16. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 9:42 am

    Very good read.

  17. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 10:33 am

    Bravo. But (in my own myopic way) I keep bringing things back to Broadway… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

  18. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 12:49 pm

  19. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 12:52 pm

    I am an asshole, I’m not proud of it.
    I don’t think racists should be proud of who they are either. Be ashamed. Being self aware and not denying the shitty aspects of yourself is a great first step towards improving.
    Take that first step.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 2:53 pm

      Nah, shame is too much to hope for. You’re assuming the person sees a problem in their behavior. I’m not so much talking about those people. They’re easy. People who think they’re doing wrong often want to change.

      I’m more talking about the people who believe their behavior is in the right. These are people aren’t looking to “improve.” They’re so much easier to recognize when they’re just carrying a confederate flag around. They only don’t because we’ve made their symbol untenable, for them. So instead they take over the acceptable ones.

    • avatar
      November 3, 2017 at 3:06 pm

      I wish they’d see problem in their behaviour.
      As a great post I once read said, “How do you make people care about others?”
      Piles of crap see no problem until they’re the ones suffering.

  20. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    Lou Marconi read this. Love you brother but read. Especially the articles part… ??

  21. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:53 pm

    Brynton G Goynes after you finish partying let me know what you think about this.

  22. avatar
    November 3, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    Chris Maverick while I don’t agree with everything…this message was on point. It’s interesting that “Blue lives matter” doesn’t report that overwhelmingly the amount of people killing & attacking police officers aren’t people of color.

  23. avatar
    November 4, 2017 at 3:22 am

    Excellent work, Chris.

  24. avatar
    November 4, 2017 at 3:22 am

    Never stop being an asshole. Remember, without assholes, shit don’t get done.

  25. avatar
    November 4, 2017 at 4:33 am

    I’m sure this is exactly the dream Dr. Martin Luther King had Shane Taylor

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:45 am

      The same dream that got him killed? Or the dream that to this day still hasn’t happened? That’s the go to argument for people, but it’s literally just saying do nothing while you’re wronged & keep asking for things to change. Take a look at a few of his last speeches before he was killed and how those messages sounded.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:56 am

      That’s why you stand and honor what he fought and died for

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:44 am

      What was honored? People of color are still being killed in the streets by police officers with impunity. Children are still being denied a proper education simply by being born into the wrong situation? The same institutions that held people back then do the same now except more people are ignorant of the fact they do it.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:27 am

      You mean the “I have a Dream” speech that a civil rights activist made DURING a protest march for jobs and economic rights where he pointed out that 100 years after the Emancipation Proclamation black people still were not free in America? Yeah, I actually think this is exactly what Dr. King would be supporting. Just really pissed off he was STILL having to fucking do this work.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:30 am

      Brenadine Humphrey as I’ve said before at THIS POINT…those that want to get it will & those that don’t will not. But they’re still making a choice…

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:36 am

      Lou, this is absolutely wrong. Like on so many many many levels.

      First off, Shane is absolutely right. MLKjr was KILLED for what he believed in. People forget that part.

      Second, That’s NOT why we stand at the national anthem. And it isn’t why it is played at football games. That’s something that people believe. But it’s not true.

      Third, the idea of standing or kneeling for the national anthem means something entirely different from what you think. Clearly. I wrote about it in a lot more detail here. http://www.chrismaverick.com/wp/2017/08/15/the-lie-of-the-anthem-and-the-flag/ Which I really really really encourage you o read. It sort of explains, as best I can, why the idea of what you are standing for does NOT apply to everyone.

      Fourth, Brenadine is right, Despite the cartoon character of version of MLK people like to believe in today, that’s not who he actually was. He was a political and civil dissident. He was all about protest. He was all about civil disobedience. He got thrown in jail for it. Ultimately, he got shot for it.

      Fifth, and this is probably most important, because really… I’m trying really hard to help you here., Lou…. few things in the world make a white man seem ore racist than telling a black man that “you shouldn’t do that, because Dr. King wouldn’t approve.” Seriously…. it doesn’t sound good… even if you were right (and you’re not this time) I would recommend avoiding that as a tactic in the future.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 8:41 am

      Lou Marconi have you actually read what MLK wrote? Have you read his speeches? The idea that you are telling African-Americans to stop protesting in honor of MLK is laughable at best. Tell me, though, are you objecting to any protest or just the method? Either way, please read https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html where MLK wrote, “First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action’; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a ‘more convenient season.’ Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.”

      MLK is writing about you, Lou.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 8:44 am

      Sam Greenfield yeah. The letter from Birmingham jail is exactly one of the things I was thinking about here. The idea that MLKjr would suddenly be against kneeling at the anthem because it might disrespect soldiers is laughable. Or it would be if it weren’t so sad.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 10:00 am

      Thanks Sam! Exactly what I was thinking without the time to write it all.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:30 am

      From this article, ““There’s just not as many people watching TV the way they used to watch TV,” said Jeremy Carey, managing director of Optimum Sports, a sports marketing agency. “It’s going to be an issue for advertisers when they can’t reach a large-scale audience the way they have.”” What is your point with this?

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:41 am

      What she said…. The article goes on to basically explain that the protests have very little to do with ratings. And even if it did… this is also not really the point that anyone is making here. IN fact, if protests are unpopular with ratings, that’s actually kinda all the more reason to make them.

      I don’t see where you’re trying to go with these links

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 9:48 am

      The point is this . You are losing your argument because what you are protesting is not what is being discussed . It is how you are protesting. The NFL is a business and these protests are bad for business. Dr. Martin Luther King was an American hero that fought died to make this country a better place. I choose to honor him and EVERYONE that fought for the same.No player kneeling during the Anthem has gone to jail. They constitutionally protected. However consumers are not obligated to agree with it. They are taking their time and money elsewhere. That my friend is why you are losing this argument. Simply because it is disgusting, disrespectful and inappropriate.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 10:26 am

      Except I’m not… I’m neither losing the argument and that is not what is being discussed. That’s the small piece of the argument you are discussing.

      1) Protests are specifically designed to be bad for business. They’re bad for the economy. They’re disruptive. I explained it in the other article that I linked to. Sociologically… you’re on the wrong side here…. You just are. I’m not talking about morally… you can believe what you want to believe… the fact that I disagree with you is immaterial. At least for this point. Your understanding of how protests work from a human sciences point of view is just wrong. Period.

      2) Historically you are wrong as well. You are NOT honoring King. You are honoring your idea of what King should have stood for. Not what he actually did. Here, what’s important is that you are missing out on a lot of history and context. I’m not saying you SHOULD honor him, btw. I’m just saying that you’re not right. That’s why Sam Greenfield linked you to the Birmingham letter above. MLKjr specifically says that you’re wrong on this case. Unambiguously and in detail. I can’t stress this enough. Your base premise you are working with here is flawed.

      3) You are correct. Consumers are not obligated to agree with a protest. In fact, they often don’t. Which, again… is why protests work. THey’re disruptive. The entire point is to break the system to inspire change. They’re not supposed to be fast. They reason its working is that so many people DO disagree with me and agree with you. Again, cultural theory is complex.

      4) you’re still doing what I wrote about before. Your constant claims that you are better honoring MLKjr than I am don’t work. First because clearly I have a better understanding of the history behind him than you do. But more importantly, (and maybe even unfairly) I’m a black guy and you’re a white guy. There is never, in any circumstance, a place where it’s going to not sound racist if you try the tactic you’re trying here. Literally, if I say “The sky is green and pigs fly” and you come back with “MLKjr said the sky is blue and pigs can’t fly.” I’m STILL going to look right because people are going to say “wow, that sounds pretty racist.” Don’t take this path. Don’t fall into this trap. Seriously, I’m not trying to be mean here. Even though I disagree with you, Im trying to help you on this one very important case. I don’t know you well, but we’ve met a couple times and you were nothing but nice… and I’m saying, with peace and love, “Dude, the tactic you’re trying comes off as REALLY REALLY racist.”

      5) I don’t think you’ve read this original post very closely, and you almost certainly didn’t read the other one. http://www.chrismaverick.com/wp/2017/08/15/the-lie-of-the-anthem-and-the-flag/ The reason the protest matters is because you are more disgusted by it than you are by the point that the protestors are trying to prove. Kneeling is really the most respectful way that point can be put across. In fact, the entire reason Kaepernic started kneeling instead of sitting (what he was originally doing) was that a vet explained to him that it was a better way of showing reverence for the soldiers so that it was clear he wasn’t disrespecting them but was instead making a stance about the ideology. It was really well thought through. The point of the protest (as I explain in the other blog) is to say “look, the country that you are supporting here with this song, stands for an ideology that we CANNOT support because it is not applying to a large segment of the population that you are pretending it does.” The point I am making here is that you are in effect asking slaves to salute the Confederate Flag and stand for the singing of Dixie. I get that you believe you are supporting the troops. And really. Good for you. But the idea of attempting to force someone who does NOT agree to show reverence anyway while ignoring their pleas for attention to the reason that ideology has failed them, is far more disrespectful to the IDEALS that the “fallen heroes” died for than the act of kneeling is. This is why I referenced my uncle Roger here, and why I referenced my grandfather in the other post. I’m trying to put a human and VETERAN face to the plight of what the kneeling protest stands for. The idea that a black man can say “look, the american dream is not working for us. People are dying” and the basic response is a bunch of white people saying “stand up, boy… don’t you see how lucky you are?!?!”

      6) finally, PLEASE reread point 4. If you agree with nothing I’ve said… that’s honestly fine… but seriously… point 4 is SUPER IMPORTANT for you here. That’s the one thing that I really really really hope you get out of this… for your own sake.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 10:44 am

      Lou Marconi look, other people are being much much nicer to you than I think they should, but hey, they know you and I don’t. But really, for fucks sake STOP invoking MLK until you actually read the fucking speech and letter from Birmingham Jail. Just fucking stop.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 1:42 pm

      #stand

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 1:44 pm

      Are you seriously using the fact that he mentions the word stand in that to support your point? If so, wow.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 1:51 pm

      If you don’t like my opinion? Then don’t bring me into your conversation! I did not jump into this, I was asked. This idiot was comparing the American flag ?? to the confederate flag & stand for the Anthem and respect your country you are racist. Which is complete BS!

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 1:55 pm

      Just saying, maybe you should take others’ advice and refrain from referring to Martin Luther King Junior in your argument, when you clearly don’t understand what he means. Use your own words. You also have the right to not argue with this. Just because someone calls you in doesn’t mean you have to respond.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 2:24 pm

      If you can kneel I can quote Dr. King. He would not have supported this divisive behavior

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 2:28 pm

      But the quote you gave actually seems to support the views of people that you were arguing against rather than your own view. What he means by stand isn’t literally standing, but means to do something against the norm in protest. And that’s exactly what these football players are doing.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 2:31 pm

      Ok…. so as Brenadine pointed out, I was being SUPER nice up until this point. Really I was. That’s actually kinda uncharacteristic of me. As I pointed out about myself in the actual article I actually norally delight in being an asshole. But instead, I was really nice and said to you that I was even trying to help. I welcomed you to disagree with me and said just be careful of how you sound on one specific point… that is, trying to use MLK to explain how you are more racially evolved than a black person… not me… any black person… because as I pointed out, when you do it, it inevitably comes across as you being a HUGE FUCKING RACIST. I have you the benefit of the doubt. I said you probably don’t mean it that way… and said to please please please be careful.

      Your response was to call me an “idiot.” And then to double down by once again doing the one thing that the I was trying to warn you about. SO…. lets do this.

      The idiot in this case (you know, me), certainly invites you to share your opinions here and participate in the discussion. That’s specifically why the idiot posts all of these things publicly. That said, please understand that the idiot is about two seconds away from getting a PhD focusing on discussing the very constructions of identity through popular culture that you are trying to argue with him about. The idiot is in fact, by definition, one of the smartest people on the fucking planet when it come to this specific area. That is why the idiot focuses on such things on his blog.

      The idiot is also very well read on Martin Luther King Jr. As he tried to inform you of. So much so, that he is aware of the quote that you are referencing. Not only is the idiot aware. The idiot knows, as Stephanie just pointed out to you, that the word “stand” being used in this case doesn’t mean what you think it means. He is not saying to literally stand up, on your feet for anything. Instead, what he means is to metaphorically stand with THE FUCKING PEOPLE WHO ARE PROTESTING BECAUSE THEIR LIVES ARE AT RISK.

      The idiot is in fact aware of more of the quote than you were able to find in a meme with the most unflattering coon pic of MLK in a straw hat. It goes on to say:

      “The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. The true neighbor will risk his position, his prestige, and even his life for the welfare of others. In dangerous valleys and hazardous pathways, he will lift some bruised and beaten brother to a higher and more noble life.”

      It’s from a sermon, reprinted in the book Strength to Love(1963), where he is specifically asking for people to make the unpopular choice choice and risk their own finances, safety, careers and livelihoods to stand up for racial injustice. He is literally specifically asking for people to be Colin Kaepernick.

      You’re welcome to quote him. You’re welcome to like him. You’re welcome to not like him. But the point is you don’t know the first fucking thing about what you’re talking about. You’re literally using quotes from a guy who disagrees with you, in a speech where he was talking about how he disagrees with you and asking for people to do the exact opposite of what you’re talking about… to prove that you are less racist than a black man who studies cultures for a living.

      I mean, I’m an idiot… but I check my fucking sources.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 2:57 pm

      Lou Marconi he LED divisive behavior EXACTLY like this protest. Are you seriously this god damn stupid?

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 3:01 pm

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 3:20 pm

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 3:21 pm

      #schooled

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:04 pm

      So in all seriousness here, Lou is basically advertising what I was talking about. The problem with wars on symbols (in either direction) is that it *feels* like you’ve won, once the other people abandon the symbol. Lou thinks what he is saying is right. Because like I said, everyone thinks what they believe is right. And he’s not even trying to be a “bad guy.” He’s trying to say “why are you disrespecting people by disrespecting this great symbol that they stood for.” Except King didn’t actually stand for a symbol. He was supporting an ideology… specifically the ideology that the “American Dream” didn’t include people of color, who he saw as at risk because of the inherently racist institutions that were in power in the country.

      Today, King has become a symbol of racial tolerance. Because the actual man is more or less forgotten in favor of a simplified cartoon of who he was. Since Lou supports the cartoon, he feels like he is in the moral right. He feels like “of course, King would have been against this. He was a great and proud American, like me. And I am against this because I believe in America, so he would have been too.”

      Except King was not a proud American. Not in his time by the standards that America judged such things. In fact, he was quite the opposite. He was more or less considered a terrorist and was at the top of the FBI watch list. Right now he’s basically famous for being the name of a street and a reason to have a mattress sale in January. That, and being shot to death. But, as Brenadine pointed out, what he was actually famous for, at the time, was running divisive protests in the name of social change. He was all about civil disobedience. “Making a stand” by engaging in non-violent disruptive behavior that really pissed off white people. Literally, it was his whole gimmick.

      And part of that gimmick, was showing reverence for the cause by taking a knee and bowing his head. In fact, he did so right before his Selma courthouse march in 1965, as this picture posted by HIS OWN DAUGHTER shows…. which she used to point out that HER FATHER (who I’m going to go out on a limb and say she knows better than me or Lou) would have been on the side of the protestors here… https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2017/09/24/amid-trumps-nfl-war-photos-of-martin-luther-king-jr-taking-a-knee-resurface/?utm_term=.0ddd19795817

      But you know… he does have a meme.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:12 pm

      If I am so racist then why is my wife bi racial and my kids 1/4 black. None of you know me at all. I am standing up for what I believe in just like he would have. He would have been appalled by me being called a racist for respecting my country and the people who have fought and died. What you are doing by kneeling is disrespectful to all that has served! Go back to your college campus safe spaces. ❄️

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:16 pm

      Lou Marconi dude… seriously… He wouldn’t have been…. I literally just posted an article where HIS DAUGHTER points out that you are wrong. I’m not asking you to change your mind here. I’m not even saying you’re racist. I’m saying that you are coming across as a racist by literally using your very poor understanding of the ONE GUY WHO MOST WOULD HAVE BEEN IN FAVOR OF THIS to justify your opinion.

      Again, keep your opinion. There’s no reason on earth that you have to agree with me. But your belief that you are winning this argument by literally quoting a speech about how you are wrong and telling people that makes you know more about racism because your kids are a quarter black is…. not serving you well….

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:18 pm

      Honestly, why is it so important to you that you have King agreeing with you? There are a lot of historical figures who would have been on your side… You just happened to choose the one that most certainly wouldn’t have been.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:24 pm

      Honestly he would not have wanted to see the fighting and the violence that has come from this. All I initially said was that this wasn’t the dream he envisioned. Everyone else spun it

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:31 pm

      I also don’t appreciate being called something I’m not

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 4:49 pm

      Except I’m not spinning it. This was EXACTLY the dream he envisioned. That was my point. He like literally gave instructions in speeches asking for EXACTLY this kind of protest. My entire point is that you are misunderstanding what his message is. It’s entirely possible that you just don’t like Martin Luther King… the actual Martin Luther King, that is… not the idea of him that you have in your head… but the actual things that he stood for.

      Similarly, I’m saying that the ideas that you have about the the flag, and reverence for it, are actually far closer to the Confederate or Colonial ideology (or if your want to get modern, something from say North Korea or Iran) than they are to the actual American ideology that you are claiming to represent.

      History matters. You are welcome to believe what you want to believe. But the “evidence” you’re using to support your beliefs is just wrong. It just is. And you can insult me for being smart and a snowflake all you want (I never understood that insult… you get that you’re literally saying “you’re wrong because you’re smart, right?”) but the actual things I’m saying are just true… they’re not debatable… they’re not my opinions. They’re facts that I have based my opinions on. Your opinions don’t have to match mine. But you can’t “prove you know better” by misexplaining facts that you don’t seem to understand.

      I get that you don’t like being called something that you aren’t. Or that you feel you aren’t. But that is sort of the point here. I don’t like being forced to stand for a national anthem that celebrates not giving refuge to fleeing slaves (Yes, this is ACTUALLY IN THE FUCKING LYRICS… we just usually skip that verse). Moreover, I don’t appreciate being told that I HAVE TO STAND for a song that literally is about having the freedom to do whatever I want including not standing for it. And I don’t like being told that I am doing something wrong, by refusing to show reverence to a symbol that supposedly supports the ideas that all people are equal and free when there are people who aren’t… and while even acknowledging those people by saying “wait, what about the people getting shot at… shouldn’t we not be patting ourselves on the fucking back for being the greatest country ever, when a bunch of people are being shot by our policemen just because of the color of their skin” yields the retort of “stop disrespecting the white people who have given you that freedom and stand up because we white people decided that it is important for you to do so!”

      So really… I’m sorry that it makes you feel bad that I don’t think you’re as wonderful and racially tolerant as you think you are just because you happen to be married to someone who is half black… That must be really hard for you. To be called a name like that…

      But again… I want you to go back and REREAD everything I said… I said several times “I don’t think Lou means it like this.” and then I said “Lou, please don’t try and use MLK to support your views here because you’re going to come off sounding really fucking racist. Pretty please… trust me on this. Don’t try. It’s not going to work out for you.”

      But you didn’t listen. Instead you doubled down and then to prove that you were more racially sensitive than everyone else because “you happen to be related to some black people by marriage” you went out and found maybe the one quote of King’s that MOST SAYS ***YOU*** ARE WRONG and called us idiots for not understanding it. No one spun it… That’s what you did.

      Now, knowing all of that… understanding all of that… understanding everything I told you about the actual history of the flag… of the anthem… of MLKjr…. throwing in that the idea of players standing for the national anthem didn’t even start til 2009, AS A COMMERICAL and not some grand tradition that you have imagined it as. Understanding that the act of kneeling is actually specifically a militarily endorse sign of respect and reverence that was chosen specifically because it was thought out rather than just something that people do because they think there are supposed til. I still say you are welcome to do whatever you want… you can stand, you can sit, you can go to the bathroom… You can believe whatever you want. BUT tell me exactly what evidence you are using to support the idea that you have some sort of moral superiority over the people who disagree with you… and how you show that by telling them they are wrong to disagree with you over the basic premise of “hey, we would like for everyone to be equal.”

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:05 pm

      Chris Maverick the protests by kneeling are not effective . Because you are not rallying new people behind the cause. What is being discussed is not what is being protested but how it’s being protested. It is not working. The Anthem was honored since the Second World War to unite the country. I never said I was morally superior. I just disagree with kneeling because I feel it’s disrespectful. I like many other people have exercised my right to take my time and my money elsewhere. Also, nobody is being put in jail for kneeling either. I am not obligated to agree with that. As for MLK I honor what he fought for!

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:14 pm

      Lou Marconi except you’re wrong. The idea that the protest is ineffective is incorrect. I explained in detail in the other post exactly why it’s incorrect. Your theory is that “but the NFL is losing money so it isn’t working”. Except that’s actually more proof that it is working. Protests aren’t supposed to magically change anyone’s mind. That’s not how people work. Instead what they do is force civic discord. They piss off people like you so that slowly and over time institutional change occurs in order to bring about a solution. As long as you stay pissed off enough to “take your money elsewhere” the protest accomplished what it’s supposed to. And even better as long as people are complaining about the protestors and amplifying their voices even better.

      Civic discord is slow. It takes a long time. Changes are gradual. People die. Usually the people who are protesting. That’s how it works and that’s why it is important.

      No one wants to obligate you to do anything. Frankly your being on the other side is far more useful. It makes you a better tool for the protest system.

      But on a personal level… again… and this has nothing to do with the protest… if you don’t want people to think you’re a racist, stop saying that you are honoring what MLK fought for. You’re not. You don’t have to. But you’re not. I’m telling you… you don’t understand what you’re saying… you don’t know enough of the details… and every time you say it, it makes you seem more racist.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:17 pm

      We can agree to disagree on whether or not the protests are effective. As far as MLK is concerned, I have honored what we fought and died for. That is why I stand for Anthem

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:25 pm

      you can disagree. You’re welcome to disagree with anything I say. That doesn’t mean that I am wrong or that you are right. You have an opinion. I study this for a living. I’m telling you how cultural shift happens… it’s like agreeing to disagree on evolution or climate change or the creation of the universe. You can believe whatever you like. It’s a free country. But the evidence is in my favor.

      Again… the point of this actual post is that you aren’t actually honoring what he died for. You’re honoring what YOU think he died for. Without, apparently, knowing the actual history of who he was or the things that HE said he stood for. That’s why I keep telling you to stop saying it out loud. It’d be like me saying “I love and respect Pope John Paul II because he stood for gay rights and ready access to abortions!”

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:55 pm

      He died making this country a better place and for equality! That is why stand to honor him!

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:58 pm

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 5:58 pm

      He died making this country a better place for equality by literally advocating the thing that you are saying people shouldn’t do. Like not an exaggeration. Not basically. I’m saying he got shot because someone believed what you believe and thought it was wrong for him to say you are wrong. That was his WHOLE deal.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:00 pm

      He advocated peaceful protest not disrespect.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:16 pm

      Standing for the Anthem will make someone as much of a racist as kneeling makes them a patriot .

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:31 pm

      Standing for the anthem makes someone a patriot as much as kneeling makes someone disrespectful.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:36 pm

      Ok…. I’m not going to do a long one here because I don’t think you read them.

      Lou Marconi said:

      “He advocated peaceful protest not disrespect.”

      1) How is kneeling not a peaceful protest?

      2) YOU’RE WRONG. He very much died advocating disrespect. SPECIFICALLY THIS IS WHY HE WAS KILLED.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:49 pm

      Not disrespect for the country

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 6:56 pm

      You’re wrong. Seriously. I get that you think that. Historically you are wrong.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:39 pm

      “I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today — my own government.”

      “I really feel that someone of influence has to say that the United States is wrong, and everybody is afraid to say it.”

      Both MLK Jr. Plenty of people considered this “disrespect for the country” at the time.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/opinion/when-martin-luther-king-came-out-against-vietnam.html

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:41 pm

      Lou Marconi, where are you getting these ideas? State, local, and federal representatives of the government all actively attacked MLK. Police forces literally attacked him and others. He was repeatedly accused of disrespecting and attacking the country. Protests he supported included walking down the street, sitting a restaurant, registering people to vote, and _not_ taking public transportation.

      Tell me, prior to Kaepernick’s protest, whenever you heard the national anthem, did you stop what you were doing, stand at attention, and remove your hat? What about when it’s on TV? Do you do that now?

      I asked before, but I’ll ask it again: are you disturbed that Kaepernick started protesting at all or are you disturbed by how he protested? What, in your mind, would be a valid protest that you would approve?

      You may feel we should punish people for not standing for the national anthem, but only fascist dictatorships do that. Check out China for example. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/04/world/asia/china-hong-kong-national-anthem.html

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:50 pm

      Also:

      “There must be a recognition on the part of everybody in this nation that America is still a racist country.”

      “Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn.”

      “We will be marching for these and a dozen other names and attending rallies without end, unless there is a significant and profound change in American life and policy.”

      “the price that America must pay for the continued oppression of the Negro and other minority groups is the price of its own destruction.”

      “The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just.”

      “White Americans must recognize that justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society.”

      And several others.

      Seriously. He was largely considered an anti-American terrorist in the 60s. He was constantly calling for American disrespect. Like I said, it was his whole gimmick.

      White people just don’t like to remember those quotes.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 7:50 pm

      Also:

      “There must be a recognition on the part of everybody in this nation that America is still a racist country.”

      “Whites, it must frankly be said, are not putting in a similar mass effort to reeducate themselves out of their racial ignorance. It is an aspect of their sense of superiority that the white people of America believe they have so little to learn.”

      “We will be marching for these and a dozen other names and attending rallies without end, unless there is a significant and profound change in American life and policy.”

      “the price that America must pay for the continued oppression of the Negro and other minority groups is the price of its own destruction.”

      “The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just.”

      “White Americans must recognize that justice for black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society.”

      And several others.

      Seriously. He was largely considered an anti-American terrorist in the 60s. He was constantly calling for American disrespect. Like I said, it was his whole gimmick.

      White people just don’t like to remember those quotes.

    • avatar
      November 5, 2017 at 4:47 am

      Arguing ideology is a waste of time. Lou, some…not all, but some of those voices screaming “stand and respect our flag” think you’re crap for marrying a bi-racial woman and wouldn’t piss on her or your 1/4 black children if they were on fire. Some of that fraction of voices would go so far as to toss gasoline on them.

      Whatever you feel about MLK, know that you are disrespecting your children’s current and future struggles, your wife’s past, current and future struggles, and the half of her family which is 100% black.
      I’ve known Chris Maverick a long, long time so I can safely say that this thread is as close to an emotional appeal that he is willing to make. So I’ll do it: you seem like the type of person who would never tell their kid to back down from a fight. THIS is their fight. You might not believe in that “one drop” rule, but a lot of people in this country still do. Would you really want your kids standing up to respect a flag flying in honor of their inherent inferiority or would you rather they kneel in remembrance of those who died trying to prove they were not?
      It is that fucking simple.

  26. avatar
    November 4, 2017 at 6:20 pm

    Irrelevant update: I find it very disturbing to read any blog (even yours) with that flag in the background.

    • avatar
      November 4, 2017 at 8:17 pm

      that’s not irrelevant. The hope was kinda that the juxtaposition of the two would cause some discomfort and sort of drive home the point. Kind of a “THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING”

      Subtle changes through artistic expression… slowly but surely…

      So like I’m glad you noticed it…. hopefully that means that at least subliminally, it has a bit of that effect on the intended audience.

  27. avatar
    November 4, 2017 at 9:39 pm

    Magnetic stuff ? who to say we’re not getting wiser with each generation!!

    • avatar
      November 9, 2017 at 10:27 pm

      i don’t know that it’s even about smarter. We are… and things actually do get better… but they also have pushback. this is part of it.

  28. avatar
    November 7, 2017 at 7:58 am

    Wow, just wow… This is exactly how I feel (not a black man), but situations are a bit different. After being in the USAF for ten years (deployed for almost half of that), I honestly believe and use “I’m color blind”
    Mind you, like any other human I have my ticks and triggers. My biggest are supremacists, after being in trenches with evey skin color imaginable, fighting yet another…. Anyhow, I agree with your uncle, I too didn’t verbally say the pledge but for another reason…. And like you, I’m a self proclaimed asshole!

    • avatar
      November 9, 2017 at 10:28 pm

      good for you. I think what people don’t get is that it SHOULD be voluntary. That’s my main message. if it’s forced it’s meaningless.

  29. avatar
    November 10, 2017 at 4:23 am

    Yup. See anecdote at end of this piece. (starts at “More than anything, what seemed to upset the people I spoke with was the National Football League players who have knelt during the national anthem to protest police brutality and racial inequality….”)

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/08/donald-trump-johnstown-pennsylvania-supporters-215800

    • avatar
      November 10, 2017 at 4:59 am

      OK, I’m not really surprised they feel that way*–more that they had the gall to verbalize these ugly thoughts to a reporter, knowing that they’d be quoted.

      *This is from having dated someone from Johnstown, who said he’d never date a black woman–any black woman–because of “their culture” (he ended up marrying an Asian woman), and he was supposedly “smart.”

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